85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
#2401
02-01-2008, 04:54 PM
#2402
02-01-2008, 05:05 PM
#2403
02-01-2008, 05:25 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
Well, I talked to the guy at kustom kraft today, finally, lol. Another nice guy that doesnt take the "why you building a girls quad" attitude, or "you dont need that if you're not drag racing" attitude. The reason I stayed on the horn with him so long is he had to check the stock on the 70 and 71mm pistons. I was told by Bear Boring that wiseco dont make 70 or 71mm pistons anymore. They even double checked. Anyway, KK has 15 70's and 13 71's. Who knows if they can get more or not. So, to be on the safe side I'm going to order one of each, that way I have an overbore on hand. Oh, and the reason he is so hard to get hold of is that he's shoveling snow all the time for the UPS trucks, lol.
So, I'm set on the BB kit. Got the rod figured out. Just need a guy that can balance everything and I'll be all set. Then, after all this is over, I'll have a 250s bored .060 over and a bit higher compression. LMAO!
So, I'm set on the BB kit. Got the rod figured out. Just need a guy that can balance everything and I'll be all set. Then, after all this is over, I'll have a 250s bored .060 over and a bit higher compression. LMAO!
#2404
02-01-2008, 08:03 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
I think I want to do what PG did before his stuff was stolen and have more then one motor. If I can start assembling a motor piece by piece from ebay and then aquire the "upgrades" over time for it and work on it...that would make it more fun.
Right now it's not fun because I want it together so I can ride. I figure the 260cc with the stage 2 cam and our 28mm carb and my Xcellerator pipe should be good enough for now.
The 2nd motor will have the afore mentioned upgrades and I can experiment with the longer rod/cam chain/balanced crank and bigger valves and anything else we can come up with. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
Right now it's not fun because I want it together so I can ride. I figure the 260cc with the stage 2 cam and our 28mm carb and my Xcellerator pipe should be good enough for now.
The 2nd motor will have the afore mentioned upgrades and I can experiment with the longer rod/cam chain/balanced crank and bigger valves and anything else we can come up with. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
#2405
02-01-2008, 09:57 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
hey, i see were talking about rods. who has the longer stroke?..................
Mr Vince told me at one time that the 230 already had a longer srroke than the Warrior and that changing it could adversley affect the already low rev limit. Of course this was about 5 years ago now. Things do change when there is money involved ,..i.e the stroke comment above[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Mr Vince told me at one time that the 230 already had a longer srroke than the Warrior and that changing it could adversley affect the already low rev limit. Of course this was about 5 years ago now. Things do change when there is money involved ,..i.e the stroke comment above[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
#2406
02-01-2008, 10:40 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: BigMc
hey, i see were talking about rods. who has the longer stroke?..................
Mr Vince told me at one time that the 230 already had a longer srroke than the Warrior and that changing it could adversley affect the already low rev limit. Of course this was about 5 years ago now. Things do change when there is money involved ,..i.e the stroke comment above[img][/img]</end quote></div>
Well if the LT230 is 111.5mm stock and both Vesrah and HotRods both show a stock rod for a 1987-2004 Yamaha Warrior 350 is 112.5mm then Vince was wrong. Vesrah does seem to make a longer rod for the LT230 which is 115.5mm.
hey, i see were talking about rods. who has the longer stroke?..................
Mr Vince told me at one time that the 230 already had a longer srroke than the Warrior and that changing it could adversley affect the already low rev limit. Of course this was about 5 years ago now. Things do change when there is money involved ,..i.e the stroke comment above[img][/img]</end quote></div>
Well if the LT230 is 111.5mm stock and both Vesrah and HotRods both show a stock rod for a 1987-2004 Yamaha Warrior 350 is 112.5mm then Vince was wrong. Vesrah does seem to make a longer rod for the LT230 which is 115.5mm.
#2407
02-01-2008, 10:51 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
What does that have to do with stroke?<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: gforce34
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: BigMc
hey, i see were talking about rods. who has the longer stroke?..................
Mr Vince told me at one time that the 230 already had a longer srroke than the Warrior and that changing it could adversley affect the already low rev limit. Of course this was about 5 years ago now. Things do change when there is money involved ,..i.e the stroke comment above[IMG][/IMG]</end quote></div>
Well if the LT230 is 111.5mm stock and both Vesrah and HotRods both show a stock rod for a 1987-2004 Yamaha Warrior 350 is 112.5mm then Vince was wrong. Vesrah does seem to make a longer rod for the LT230 which is 115.5mm.</end quote></div>
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: BigMc
hey, i see were talking about rods. who has the longer stroke?..................
Mr Vince told me at one time that the 230 already had a longer srroke than the Warrior and that changing it could adversley affect the already low rev limit. Of course this was about 5 years ago now. Things do change when there is money involved ,..i.e the stroke comment above[IMG][/IMG]</end quote></div>
Well if the LT230 is 111.5mm stock and both Vesrah and HotRods both show a stock rod for a 1987-2004 Yamaha Warrior 350 is 112.5mm then Vince was wrong. Vesrah does seem to make a longer rod for the LT230 which is 115.5mm.</end quote></div>
#2408
02-01-2008, 10:55 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: BigMc
What does that have to do with stroke?<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: gforce34
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: BigMc
hey, i see were talking about rods. who has the longer stroke?..................
Mr Vince told me at one time that the 230 already had a longer srroke than the Warrior and that changing it could adversley affect the already low rev limit. Of course this was about 5 years ago now. Things do change when there is money involved ,..i.e the stroke comment above[IMG][/IMG]</end quote></div>
Well if the LT230 is 111.5mm stock and both Vesrah and HotRods both show a stock rod for a 1987-2004 Yamaha Warrior 350 is 112.5mm then Vince was wrong. Vesrah does seem to make a longer rod for the LT230 which is 115.5mm.</end quote></div></end quote></div>
I'm ignorant to engines, since this is my first teardown....but I thought the rod was directly related to the stroke....so the longer the rod the longer the stroke. I'm not sure if the crank plays a role in how big the stroke is.
What does that have to do with stroke?<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: gforce34
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: BigMc
hey, i see were talking about rods. who has the longer stroke?..................
Mr Vince told me at one time that the 230 already had a longer srroke than the Warrior and that changing it could adversley affect the already low rev limit. Of course this was about 5 years ago now. Things do change when there is money involved ,..i.e the stroke comment above[IMG][/IMG]</end quote></div>
Well if the LT230 is 111.5mm stock and both Vesrah and HotRods both show a stock rod for a 1987-2004 Yamaha Warrior 350 is 112.5mm then Vince was wrong. Vesrah does seem to make a longer rod for the LT230 which is 115.5mm.</end quote></div></end quote></div>
I'm ignorant to engines, since this is my first teardown....but I thought the rod was directly related to the stroke....so the longer the rod the longer the stroke. I'm not sure if the crank plays a role in how big the stroke is.
#2409
02-01-2008, 11:08 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
Given the exact same engine, with a longer rod, the stroke is te same. But the centerline on the piston will need to move north, toward the piston rings, to acomadate the longer rod. This will improve the rod angle on the up stroke. This inturn reduces piston chatter, which will improve engine reliability.
The only way to fit a longer stroke into the "stock" motor is to change the center point of the big end of the rod. This will improve the stroke length, but the rpm's will be higher at any given point , compared to stock, due to the smaller circle the crank will rotate around its center.
J.R.
Step in when ever you see fit. After all, I could be wrong.
The only way to fit a longer stroke into the "stock" motor is to change the center point of the big end of the rod. This will improve the stroke length, but the rpm's will be higher at any given point , compared to stock, due to the smaller circle the crank will rotate around its center.
J.R.
Step in when ever you see fit. After all, I could be wrong.
#2410
02-01-2008, 11:27 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
I think this helped me understand.
One important factor in engine design is the rod/stroke ratio. Rod/stroke ratio is the ratio of the length of the connecting rod to the length of the crankshaft's stroke. An increase in the rod/stroke ratio (a longer rod, shorter stroke, or both,) results in a decrease in piston speed. However, again due to strength and size concerns, there is a limit to how long a rod can be in relation to the stroke. A longer rod (and consequently, higher rod/stroke ratio,) can potentially create more power, due to the fact that with a longer connecting rod, more force from the piston is delivered tangentially to the crankshafts rotation, delivering more torque. A shorter rod/stroke ratio creates higher piston speeds, but this can be beneficial depending on other engine characteristics. Increased piston speeds can create tumble or swirl within the cylinder and reduce detonation. Increased piston speeds can also draw fuel/air mix into the cylinder more quickly through a larger intake runner, promoting good cylinder filling.
Rod length and stroke length are independent variables. Rod length is expressed as Center-to-Center (c/c) length. An engine with a particular stroke can be fitted with rods of several c/c lengths by changing the piston pin location or block deck height. A rod that is longer in relation to stroke causes the piston to dwell a longer time at top dead center and causes the piston to move toward and away from TDC more slowly. Long rod engines with a particular stroke also build suction above the piston with less force, since the piston moves away from TDC more slowly. Consequently, long rod engines tend to produce a lower port air velocity, which also reduces low speed torque. Long rods place less thrust load on the cylinder walls, thus generate less parasitic drag and result in less frictional losses as engine revolutions rise. A "short rod" engine has the opposite characteristics. "The short rod exerts more force to the crank pin at any crank angle that counts i.e.--20° ATDC to 70° ATDC" (Jere Stahl). Short rod engines tend develop more torque at lower engine speeds with torque and horsepower falling off quickly as engine RPM rises to high levels. Long rod engines generally produce more power due to reduced engine drag, especially as engine RPM increases. Regardless of rod length for a given stroke, the average piston speed (usually expressed in Ft/sec or M/sec) remains the same. What changes as the rod length becomes shorter or longer in relation to the stroke, is the RATE of motion as the piston rises and falls in relation to the crankshaft. A long rod fitted to a given stroke generates less stress on the component parts due to the lower rate of acceleration away from and toward TDC. The average piston speed is the same; however, the peak piston speed is lower with long rods.
One important factor in engine design is the rod/stroke ratio. Rod/stroke ratio is the ratio of the length of the connecting rod to the length of the crankshaft's stroke. An increase in the rod/stroke ratio (a longer rod, shorter stroke, or both,) results in a decrease in piston speed. However, again due to strength and size concerns, there is a limit to how long a rod can be in relation to the stroke. A longer rod (and consequently, higher rod/stroke ratio,) can potentially create more power, due to the fact that with a longer connecting rod, more force from the piston is delivered tangentially to the crankshafts rotation, delivering more torque. A shorter rod/stroke ratio creates higher piston speeds, but this can be beneficial depending on other engine characteristics. Increased piston speeds can create tumble or swirl within the cylinder and reduce detonation. Increased piston speeds can also draw fuel/air mix into the cylinder more quickly through a larger intake runner, promoting good cylinder filling.
Rod length and stroke length are independent variables. Rod length is expressed as Center-to-Center (c/c) length. An engine with a particular stroke can be fitted with rods of several c/c lengths by changing the piston pin location or block deck height. A rod that is longer in relation to stroke causes the piston to dwell a longer time at top dead center and causes the piston to move toward and away from TDC more slowly. Long rod engines with a particular stroke also build suction above the piston with less force, since the piston moves away from TDC more slowly. Consequently, long rod engines tend to produce a lower port air velocity, which also reduces low speed torque. Long rods place less thrust load on the cylinder walls, thus generate less parasitic drag and result in less frictional losses as engine revolutions rise. A "short rod" engine has the opposite characteristics. "The short rod exerts more force to the crank pin at any crank angle that counts i.e.--20° ATDC to 70° ATDC" (Jere Stahl). Short rod engines tend develop more torque at lower engine speeds with torque and horsepower falling off quickly as engine RPM rises to high levels. Long rod engines generally produce more power due to reduced engine drag, especially as engine RPM increases. Regardless of rod length for a given stroke, the average piston speed (usually expressed in Ft/sec or M/sec) remains the same. What changes as the rod length becomes shorter or longer in relation to the stroke, is the RATE of motion as the piston rises and falls in relation to the crankshaft. A long rod fitted to a given stroke generates less stress on the component parts due to the lower rate of acceleration away from and toward TDC. The average piston speed is the same; however, the peak piston speed is lower with long rods.