85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
#3811
07-17-2008, 03:48 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MMZUKI
Hey Randy,
Haven't heard back from Motoman yet so we just radiused the edge of the big ledge on the floor of the intake port on my head and installed the Wiseco Hi-Comp piston stock bore size. Decked the head and jug slightly and enlarged the main jet size 2 # drill sizes. We believe the compression is right at 11.2:1. I broke it in like Moto says for about 20 minutes. Now my son-in-laws 300ex that we just bored can't catch up.</end quote></div>
Did you use the jb weld in the port?
Sounds like good work! I don't even think a warrior would keep up actually. They have the CV carbs and 80 extra pounds. Those cv carbs really take the fun out of everything.
Hey Randy,
Haven't heard back from Motoman yet so we just radiused the edge of the big ledge on the floor of the intake port on my head and installed the Wiseco Hi-Comp piston stock bore size. Decked the head and jug slightly and enlarged the main jet size 2 # drill sizes. We believe the compression is right at 11.2:1. I broke it in like Moto says for about 20 minutes. Now my son-in-laws 300ex that we just bored can't catch up.</end quote></div>
Did you use the jb weld in the port?
Sounds like good work! I don't even think a warrior would keep up actually. They have the CV carbs and 80 extra pounds. Those cv carbs really take the fun out of everything.
#3812
07-17-2008, 03:53 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: UGLY88
I am watching that 250 shock. I can't tell if it has been painted of if the flash washed it out. I am worried about buying one, getting it and then having to spend lots of money on a rebuild. Anybody know the cost of a shock rebuild?</end quote></div>
I don't know if they're even rebuildable. I'd take the $15 gamble. Wouldn't get in a biddin war though. If it goes too high I'd just keep what I got. And if this quad manages to make it past a summer without slinging a rod thru the case or exploding into flames, I might upgrade to works shocks. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
I am watching that 250 shock. I can't tell if it has been painted of if the flash washed it out. I am worried about buying one, getting it and then having to spend lots of money on a rebuild. Anybody know the cost of a shock rebuild?</end quote></div>
I don't know if they're even rebuildable. I'd take the $15 gamble. Wouldn't get in a biddin war though. If it goes too high I'd just keep what I got. And if this quad manages to make it past a summer without slinging a rod thru the case or exploding into flames, I might upgrade to works shocks. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
#3813
07-17-2008, 04:03 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
Btw, I split my cases the other day. It was easy! Well,,,, except for 4 screws. I used every idea I could come up with the remove those 4 screws. Nothing worked. So, I welded a bolt on the heads and used a socket n ratchet, lol. That worked. Whew! Now I have a bunch of weld platter to clean up. But other than that, its a piece of cake to split the cases n get the crank out. The tranny stays together. Stay tuned for pics.
The way I found to remove the flywheel was:
1) Put the nut that holds the flywheel on at the end of the shaft so the top surface of the nut is flush with the end of the shaft. That way the puller doesn't squish the threaded end.
2) Tighten the puller down as tight as you can and still be sure you're not wrecking anything.
3) Apply gentle heat very evenly to the puller and flywheel. Gentle and light heat! Very important not to warp the flywheel with too much heat!
4) Rap the puller with a smart blow from a hammer and it pops right off.
The way to split the cases is just to use tiny screwdrivers as wedges at the engine mounts spots on the case. It just falls apart basically. No need for a fancy case-splitter.
Now its Fordged H-beam rod time!
The way I found to remove the flywheel was:
1) Put the nut that holds the flywheel on at the end of the shaft so the top surface of the nut is flush with the end of the shaft. That way the puller doesn't squish the threaded end.
2) Tighten the puller down as tight as you can and still be sure you're not wrecking anything.
3) Apply gentle heat very evenly to the puller and flywheel. Gentle and light heat! Very important not to warp the flywheel with too much heat!
4) Rap the puller with a smart blow from a hammer and it pops right off.
The way to split the cases is just to use tiny screwdrivers as wedges at the engine mounts spots on the case. It just falls apart basically. No need for a fancy case-splitter.
Now its Fordged H-beam rod time!
#3814
07-18-2008, 12:01 AM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
Did you use the jb weld
Nope, got an extra head, jug, and valve cover from e-bay for $41.00 + frt. Just slightly radiused the sharp ledge in the intake port was all. Gonna jb the other head when we get some more info from Motoman, if ever. Got my big bore ( 71mm ) ready but would like to find an extra crank to send to Vince's so I'm not without too long. Maybe winter.
Nope, got an extra head, jug, and valve cover from e-bay for $41.00 + frt. Just slightly radiused the sharp ledge in the intake port was all. Gonna jb the other head when we get some more info from Motoman, if ever. Got my big bore ( 71mm ) ready but would like to find an extra crank to send to Vince's so I'm not without too long. Maybe winter.
#3815
07-18-2008, 01:36 AM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
I doubt motoman will ever say anything. I'm sure he's drowning in a sea of email.
From my knowledge of speaker box building, I can say with certainty that if the port is the right size, air will continue to rush in even as the piston is coming back up the bore. However, a port has only one resonant frequency. The reason you can make a speaker box louder by porting it is the column of air in the port oscillates 180 degrees out of phase with the speaker at the resonant frequency of the system. In other words, as the speaker is moving out of the box, the column of air is also moving out of the box. Intuitively, you may be wondering how that can be.... I know it took me a long time to grasp the idea. Below the resonant frequency air comes out as the speaker moves in. Above the resonant the air doesn't do much of anything.
The problem with an engine is you need to know where you want the most power in relation to rpm. Because your porting can only boost power at one frequency... Below that frequency the air will just match the piston. As the piston moves back up, air will not still rush in. Above that frequency the air will not want to move at all! So, long and narrow ports will resonate at low frequencies while short and fat ports will resonate higher.
The 230 has an intake port of about 1 3/16 diameter and about 3 inches long. The runner is another 1.5 inches or so. And the carb is probably another 2.5 for a total of 7 inches. An enclosure having a volume of .25 liters with a port of these dimensions will resonate around 200 hz. That translates to 12,000 rpm. I could be a little off, so lets just say 10-14,000. Therefore, it makes sense that making the port smaller will increase power because the resonant frequency of the port will fall in the,,,, say,,, 8-9000 range.... or less. And THAT would be a good thing. How much smaller???? I have no clue. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] It seems that making it longer would do the same thing, but common sense is telling me shorter is less friction.... and having the nozzle effect is worth something as well.
I'd be willing to bet that a couple tubes of jb weld would substantially increase compression in the usable rpm range (instead of some ungodly 12,000 rpm).
You can also do the same thing with the breather port. A little acoustical engineering may get a couple more ponies to the wheels. Obviously, the breather is WAY too small! I think in this case we need to be well below resonance to keep crankcase pressures/vacuums low. So, a short, fat tube is in order.
From my knowledge of speaker box building, I can say with certainty that if the port is the right size, air will continue to rush in even as the piston is coming back up the bore. However, a port has only one resonant frequency. The reason you can make a speaker box louder by porting it is the column of air in the port oscillates 180 degrees out of phase with the speaker at the resonant frequency of the system. In other words, as the speaker is moving out of the box, the column of air is also moving out of the box. Intuitively, you may be wondering how that can be.... I know it took me a long time to grasp the idea. Below the resonant frequency air comes out as the speaker moves in. Above the resonant the air doesn't do much of anything.
The problem with an engine is you need to know where you want the most power in relation to rpm. Because your porting can only boost power at one frequency... Below that frequency the air will just match the piston. As the piston moves back up, air will not still rush in. Above that frequency the air will not want to move at all! So, long and narrow ports will resonate at low frequencies while short and fat ports will resonate higher.
The 230 has an intake port of about 1 3/16 diameter and about 3 inches long. The runner is another 1.5 inches or so. And the carb is probably another 2.5 for a total of 7 inches. An enclosure having a volume of .25 liters with a port of these dimensions will resonate around 200 hz. That translates to 12,000 rpm. I could be a little off, so lets just say 10-14,000. Therefore, it makes sense that making the port smaller will increase power because the resonant frequency of the port will fall in the,,,, say,,, 8-9000 range.... or less. And THAT would be a good thing. How much smaller???? I have no clue. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] It seems that making it longer would do the same thing, but common sense is telling me shorter is less friction.... and having the nozzle effect is worth something as well.
I'd be willing to bet that a couple tubes of jb weld would substantially increase compression in the usable rpm range (instead of some ungodly 12,000 rpm).
You can also do the same thing with the breather port. A little acoustical engineering may get a couple more ponies to the wheels. Obviously, the breather is WAY too small! I think in this case we need to be well below resonance to keep crankcase pressures/vacuums low. So, a short, fat tube is in order.
#3816
07-18-2008, 11:04 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
I doubt motoman will ever say anything. I'm sure he's drowning in a sea of email.
From my knowledge of speaker box building, I can say with certainty that if the port is the right size, air will continue to rush in even as the piston is coming back up the bore. However, a port has only one resonant frequency. The reason you can make a speaker box louder by porting it is the column of air in the port oscillates 180 degrees out of phase with the speaker at the resonant frequency of the system. In other words, as the speaker is moving out of the box, the column of air is also moving out of the box. Intuitively, you may be wondering how that can be.... I know it took me a long time to grasp the idea. Below the resonant frequency air comes out as the speaker moves in. Above the resonant the air doesn't do much of anything.
The problem with an engine is you need to know where you want the most power in relation to rpm. Because your porting can only boost power at one frequency... Below that frequency the air will just match the piston. As the piston moves back up, air will not still rush in. Above that frequency the air will not want to move at all! So, long and narrow ports will resonate at low frequencies while short and fat ports will resonate higher.
The 230 has an intake port of about 1 3/16 diameter and about 3 inches long. The runner is another 1.5 inches or so. And the carb is probably another 2.5 for a total of 7 inches. An enclosure having a volume of .25 liters with a port of these dimensions will resonate around 200 hz. That translates to 12,000 rpm. I could be a little off, so lets just say 10-14,000. Therefore, it makes sense that making the port smaller will increase power because the resonant frequency of the port will fall in the,,,, say,,, 8-9000 range.... or less. And THAT would be a good thing. How much smaller???? I have no clue. [img][/img] It seems that making it longer would do the same thing, but common sense is telling me shorter is less friction.... and having the nozzle effect is worth something as well.
I'd be willing to bet that a couple tubes of jb weld would substantially increase compression in the usable rpm range (instead of some ungodly 12,000 rpm).
You can also do the same thing with the breather port. A little acoustical engineering may get a couple more ponies to the wheels. Obviously, the breather is WAY too small! I think in this case we need to be well below resonance to keep crankcase pressures/vacuums low. So, a short, fat tube is in order.</end quote></div>
Uh, wow, I guess is all I have to say!!
I feel like Beevis, or probably Butthead, but, this is , like really cool, or sumpthin, heh,heh.
I don't quite understand what you are saying, but it makes sense, I guess??
Big thoughts keep me coming back for more!
I doubt motoman will ever say anything. I'm sure he's drowning in a sea of email.
From my knowledge of speaker box building, I can say with certainty that if the port is the right size, air will continue to rush in even as the piston is coming back up the bore. However, a port has only one resonant frequency. The reason you can make a speaker box louder by porting it is the column of air in the port oscillates 180 degrees out of phase with the speaker at the resonant frequency of the system. In other words, as the speaker is moving out of the box, the column of air is also moving out of the box. Intuitively, you may be wondering how that can be.... I know it took me a long time to grasp the idea. Below the resonant frequency air comes out as the speaker moves in. Above the resonant the air doesn't do much of anything.
The problem with an engine is you need to know where you want the most power in relation to rpm. Because your porting can only boost power at one frequency... Below that frequency the air will just match the piston. As the piston moves back up, air will not still rush in. Above that frequency the air will not want to move at all! So, long and narrow ports will resonate at low frequencies while short and fat ports will resonate higher.
The 230 has an intake port of about 1 3/16 diameter and about 3 inches long. The runner is another 1.5 inches or so. And the carb is probably another 2.5 for a total of 7 inches. An enclosure having a volume of .25 liters with a port of these dimensions will resonate around 200 hz. That translates to 12,000 rpm. I could be a little off, so lets just say 10-14,000. Therefore, it makes sense that making the port smaller will increase power because the resonant frequency of the port will fall in the,,,, say,,, 8-9000 range.... or less. And THAT would be a good thing. How much smaller???? I have no clue. [img][/img] It seems that making it longer would do the same thing, but common sense is telling me shorter is less friction.... and having the nozzle effect is worth something as well.
I'd be willing to bet that a couple tubes of jb weld would substantially increase compression in the usable rpm range (instead of some ungodly 12,000 rpm).
You can also do the same thing with the breather port. A little acoustical engineering may get a couple more ponies to the wheels. Obviously, the breather is WAY too small! I think in this case we need to be well below resonance to keep crankcase pressures/vacuums low. So, a short, fat tube is in order.</end quote></div>
Uh, wow, I guess is all I have to say!!
I feel like Beevis, or probably Butthead, but, this is , like really cool, or sumpthin, heh,heh.
I don't quite understand what you are saying, but it makes sense, I guess??
Big thoughts keep me coming back for more!
#3817
07-19-2008, 12:18 PM
#3818
07-19-2008, 05:17 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
I am assuredly with poolgod on that last note randy. JUST COOL HUH HUH HUH, YEA BEAVIS COOL. It sounds like you are doing what my first project was with my turd 230. I had to put in a new crank 'cause mine was bent and shearing flywheel keys as soon as it started. The thing I found the biggest pain is the spring you have to get back in the damn hole when putting it back together. The crank was about the easiest I ever did though. I hope you are putting in knew crank bearings, And be aware the two sides on the 230 are different sizes so order a set. Bikerchicksltd is the best e-bay store for price and shipping time for these.
I tried do get some pics up again and it says all my pictures are to big. How do I get a smaller pic ( i mean file size)
I tried do get some pics up again and it says all my pictures are to big. How do I get a smaller pic ( i mean file size)
#3819
07-19-2008, 05:40 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
I have a crank that i might send to vince and then post to e-bay. I found a complete running 230 that I am scooping up in a few days. I am still finishing this moto 4 for a costumer. This 230 has a few small oil leeks from the chain side case cover (common oops). I did some work on this last sept so I am familiar with whats new and stuff. I will be parting this one out though. I am going to sell the maijer plastic from mine and keep his plastic. this winter I cracked one of the rear sides of mine and cut it out smooth and then made the other side match. I also removed the front mounts by rounding the corner off. It looks decent, I am just not liking the white look.
#3820
07-20-2008, 05:16 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
It sounds more complicated than it really is coz I'm no genius. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
You might feel silly, but grab a rubber band and a master lock. Hang the lock from the band and bounce it. You see how your hand and the lock move in opposite directions? That's resonance! If you move your hand slower than that.... Really slow... You'll see you hand and the lock move in the same direction. If you move your hand super fast, the lock barely moves at all. Its exactly the same thing as with speaker boxes and engines. The idea is to get the air to sling around like the lock does at resonance. That way, the air rushes in as the piston comes up and you get more power.
You might feel silly, but grab a rubber band and a master lock. Hang the lock from the band and bounce it. You see how your hand and the lock move in opposite directions? That's resonance! If you move your hand slower than that.... Really slow... You'll see you hand and the lock move in the same direction. If you move your hand super fast, the lock barely moves at all. Its exactly the same thing as with speaker boxes and engines. The idea is to get the air to sling around like the lock does at resonance. That way, the air rushes in as the piston comes up and you get more power.