85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
#5261
02-14-2009, 10:52 AM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
I'm new to this forum so , hello everyone
I bought a 86 lt230s at the end of last summer in pretty rough shape and have started to get it ready to break again on the gnarly trails/cliffs around me here in VT
When I first got it , it would idle but not take any throttle - I found it had a k&n filter and full cobra exhaust and they guy had installed a new stock carb kit in the carb so the jetting was out to lunch
I switched to a new 28mm flatslide and uni-filter - I got it running ok by drilling the pilot jet a little larger and playing with the needle - if anyone knows a rough place to start jet wise for my setup that be cool , I'm not too worried right now as I have a lot of Sunday nights left (the only time I get to work on it) replacing all the bad bearings and bushings
I have no clue whats been done to the engine I plan on tearing it down next winter - it has good compression now and doesn't seem to smoke
It seems to be modified a bit though - I already fpound out the hard way the the rear carrier had been switched from a 86 to a 87+ after getting a new caliper and bracket ,but I made my own bracket and was good to go
Sorry to ramble a bit , I'll post some pics up when it starts to look like a quad again
Brady
I bought a 86 lt230s at the end of last summer in pretty rough shape and have started to get it ready to break again on the gnarly trails/cliffs around me here in VT
When I first got it , it would idle but not take any throttle - I found it had a k&n filter and full cobra exhaust and they guy had installed a new stock carb kit in the carb so the jetting was out to lunch
I switched to a new 28mm flatslide and uni-filter - I got it running ok by drilling the pilot jet a little larger and playing with the needle - if anyone knows a rough place to start jet wise for my setup that be cool , I'm not too worried right now as I have a lot of Sunday nights left (the only time I get to work on it) replacing all the bad bearings and bushings
I have no clue whats been done to the engine I plan on tearing it down next winter - it has good compression now and doesn't seem to smoke
It seems to be modified a bit though - I already fpound out the hard way the the rear carrier had been switched from a 86 to a 87+ after getting a new caliper and bracket ,but I made my own bracket and was good to go
Sorry to ramble a bit , I'll post some pics up when it starts to look like a quad again
Brady
#5262
02-14-2009, 11:08 AM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: nummbr7
I'm new to this forum so , hello everyone
I bought a 86 lt230s at the end of last summer in pretty rough shape and have started to get it ready to break again on the gnarly trails/cliffs around me here in VT
When I first got it , it would idle but not take any throttle - I found it had a k&n filter and full cobra exhaust and they guy had installed a new stock carb kit in the carb so the jetting was out to lunch
I switched to a new 28mm flatslide and uni-filter - I got it running ok by drilling the pilot jet a little larger and playing with the needle - if anyone knows a rough place to start jet wise for my setup that be cool , I'm not too worried right now as I have a lot of Sunday nights left (the only time I get to work on it) replacing all the bad bearings and bushings
I have no clue whats been done to the engine I plan on tearing it down next winter - it has good compression now and doesn't seem to smoke
It seems to be modified a bit though - I already fpound out the hard way the the rear carrier had been switched from a 86 to a 87+ after getting a new caliper and bracket ,but I made my own bracket and was good to go
Sorry to ramble a bit , I'll post some pics up when it starts to look like a quad again
Brady</end quote></div>
Do a search in this thread for 28mm carb. Justrandy has dialed that one in. In detail.
I'm new to this forum so , hello everyone
I bought a 86 lt230s at the end of last summer in pretty rough shape and have started to get it ready to break again on the gnarly trails/cliffs around me here in VT
When I first got it , it would idle but not take any throttle - I found it had a k&n filter and full cobra exhaust and they guy had installed a new stock carb kit in the carb so the jetting was out to lunch
I switched to a new 28mm flatslide and uni-filter - I got it running ok by drilling the pilot jet a little larger and playing with the needle - if anyone knows a rough place to start jet wise for my setup that be cool , I'm not too worried right now as I have a lot of Sunday nights left (the only time I get to work on it) replacing all the bad bearings and bushings
I have no clue whats been done to the engine I plan on tearing it down next winter - it has good compression now and doesn't seem to smoke
It seems to be modified a bit though - I already fpound out the hard way the the rear carrier had been switched from a 86 to a 87+ after getting a new caliper and bracket ,but I made my own bracket and was good to go
Sorry to ramble a bit , I'll post some pics up when it starts to look like a quad again
Brady</end quote></div>
Do a search in this thread for 28mm carb. Justrandy has dialed that one in. In detail.
#5263
02-14-2009, 11:45 AM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: UGLY88
I meant that they offer not only different sizes, but they offer a lot of diferent bends and offsets to fit the area allowed by what the 230 gives you for space.
No offense meant, but I would not get one as big as the 2 litre. I believe there is room for improvment over the stock set up, and with a reasonable size filter with outerwears it can be an improvement in performance especially the 28 mm carb that i received to put on. the clamp on filter with the little bit larger carb will allow more air and fuel to take advantage in porting and cams while still getting the velocity increase as the air gets sucked through the throat of the carb. Don't you think? </end quote></div>
You guys don't have to worry about offending me... I've grown a layer of pretty thick skin due to the internet's abrasiveness. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
From my experience and from talking to the dial-a-jet tech (who I think is actually the owner), there is an "optimal solution" in terms of airflow resistance relative to area under the HP curve. Meaning, as resistence approaches zero the peak HP may go up, but the total area under the HP curve may go down. I know it doesn't make any sense at first because we think "more air = more power"... Which is true, but you also need more gas to go with the air. However, in a carb, what you get with more air is progressively less gas.
Its true that the venturi effect causes a vacuum which causes the gas to travel up from the bowl and into the airstream, but you also need some airflow resistance behind the carb to add more vacuum in order to get more gas. If you don't have that resistance, you'll have to use such large jets to dial in WOT that any throttle opening under WOT results in a so-so mixture. Additionally, with monster jet sizes, gas is not atomized, but comes out in globs. And that reduces the overall efficiency of the engine even though you may (or may not) achieve a higher peak HP.
Read this: http://www.thunderproducts.com/AirboxArticle.htm
And then check this out: http://www.thunderproducts.com/tpi_valve.htm
The main reason I went with a 2-liter size filter is so I'd never have to clean it. The little kn that went in the airbox becomes junk in a few months after its "cleaned" improperly 2 or 3 times. The other reason is I didn't understand the need for an airbox and mistakenly thought more air = more power.
My buddy with the Warrior is having the same trouble. He put a 38mm carb on with a clamp-on kn that is about half the size of mine. Its a jetting nightmare. I think he's spent more on jets and needles than he did on the carb and we still don't have it right. It does have lots of power! But we can't just putt around. The rider has to be on the gas all the time or it doesn't run right. And that's the best we could do so far. I told him 10-20 times he'll have to get a dial-a-jet to get the extra gas it needs, but he was determined.... Its like a puzzle. Once he broke his arm, we shelved the project.
I'm actually thinking of getting a 2nd dial-a-jet for mine, but will see how it runs in the thinner air of the mountains first.
More air is good, but only if you have a way of getting more gas in there too. EFI with a MAP, MAF, and O2 sensor would be nice. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I meant that they offer not only different sizes, but they offer a lot of diferent bends and offsets to fit the area allowed by what the 230 gives you for space.
No offense meant, but I would not get one as big as the 2 litre. I believe there is room for improvment over the stock set up, and with a reasonable size filter with outerwears it can be an improvement in performance especially the 28 mm carb that i received to put on. the clamp on filter with the little bit larger carb will allow more air and fuel to take advantage in porting and cams while still getting the velocity increase as the air gets sucked through the throat of the carb. Don't you think? </end quote></div>
You guys don't have to worry about offending me... I've grown a layer of pretty thick skin due to the internet's abrasiveness. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
From my experience and from talking to the dial-a-jet tech (who I think is actually the owner), there is an "optimal solution" in terms of airflow resistance relative to area under the HP curve. Meaning, as resistence approaches zero the peak HP may go up, but the total area under the HP curve may go down. I know it doesn't make any sense at first because we think "more air = more power"... Which is true, but you also need more gas to go with the air. However, in a carb, what you get with more air is progressively less gas.
Its true that the venturi effect causes a vacuum which causes the gas to travel up from the bowl and into the airstream, but you also need some airflow resistance behind the carb to add more vacuum in order to get more gas. If you don't have that resistance, you'll have to use such large jets to dial in WOT that any throttle opening under WOT results in a so-so mixture. Additionally, with monster jet sizes, gas is not atomized, but comes out in globs. And that reduces the overall efficiency of the engine even though you may (or may not) achieve a higher peak HP.
Read this: http://www.thunderproducts.com/AirboxArticle.htm
And then check this out: http://www.thunderproducts.com/tpi_valve.htm
The main reason I went with a 2-liter size filter is so I'd never have to clean it. The little kn that went in the airbox becomes junk in a few months after its "cleaned" improperly 2 or 3 times. The other reason is I didn't understand the need for an airbox and mistakenly thought more air = more power.
My buddy with the Warrior is having the same trouble. He put a 38mm carb on with a clamp-on kn that is about half the size of mine. Its a jetting nightmare. I think he's spent more on jets and needles than he did on the carb and we still don't have it right. It does have lots of power! But we can't just putt around. The rider has to be on the gas all the time or it doesn't run right. And that's the best we could do so far. I told him 10-20 times he'll have to get a dial-a-jet to get the extra gas it needs, but he was determined.... Its like a puzzle. Once he broke his arm, we shelved the project.
I'm actually thinking of getting a 2nd dial-a-jet for mine, but will see how it runs in the thinner air of the mountains first.
More air is good, but only if you have a way of getting more gas in there too. EFI with a MAP, MAF, and O2 sensor would be nice. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
#5264
02-14-2009, 11:55 AM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: UGLY88
Do you know if the 85, 86 axle is the same as the 87-88?</end quote></div>
There may be some small differences, not sure. I know the brake rotor is different. But I have little doubt all the axles are interchangeable. As a matter of fact, in 87 they used the 2 different styles in the smae year. At least I think it was 87.
I have a 250S axle in the garage that I'm sure will work. I just haven't put it in yet since I'm not sure I want the back to be wider. I'm still toying with the idea. The 250S axle is at least 2 inches longer. Maybe more. I can't keep track of all these differences off the top of my head anymore. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
I remember reading a post in here somewhere that said the 250r axle will work in the 230. And I think I verified that by looking at durablue part numbers. http://www.durablue.com/prod_d...ay/Axles/5/0.php#axles If you can find someone to give you a durablue part number of the axle they are using in the 230, you'll probably see it listed for a 250r on that page.
Do you know if the 85, 86 axle is the same as the 87-88?</end quote></div>
There may be some small differences, not sure. I know the brake rotor is different. But I have little doubt all the axles are interchangeable. As a matter of fact, in 87 they used the 2 different styles in the smae year. At least I think it was 87.
I have a 250S axle in the garage that I'm sure will work. I just haven't put it in yet since I'm not sure I want the back to be wider. I'm still toying with the idea. The 250S axle is at least 2 inches longer. Maybe more. I can't keep track of all these differences off the top of my head anymore. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
I remember reading a post in here somewhere that said the 250r axle will work in the 230. And I think I verified that by looking at durablue part numbers. http://www.durablue.com/prod_d...ay/Axles/5/0.php#axles If you can find someone to give you a durablue part number of the axle they are using in the 230, you'll probably see it listed for a 250r on that page.
#5265
02-14-2009, 11:58 AM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: UGLY88
Rear axle info. Another member stated that he able to put a 250R axle into his 230 for an additional 2" of width. Can you guys Verify? Randy, I couldn't remember if you did that or if you went with the 250S axle.
64710-22A01=86
64710-22A01=87
64710-01C01=87 250R
The 87 Diagram lists and shows two axles but only one number is listed as part number 13, which is also the same as the updated 86 axle number.</end quote></div>
64710-25C00 = 90 250S
Rear axle info. Another member stated that he able to put a 250R axle into his 230 for an additional 2" of width. Can you guys Verify? Randy, I couldn't remember if you did that or if you went with the 250S axle.
64710-22A01=86
64710-22A01=87
64710-01C01=87 250R
The 87 Diagram lists and shows two axles but only one number is listed as part number 13, which is also the same as the updated 86 axle number.</end quote></div>
64710-25C00 = 90 250S
#5266
02-14-2009, 12:12 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: atvman29
I might enjoy doing math problems for fun once I'm not taking calc 1 and 2 for an hour each 4 days out of the week! [img][/img]</end quote></div>
Now's the perfect time... While its all fresh in your mind. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Anyone want to calculate the power saved by switching from 13/39 sprockets to 11/33 sprockets if the chain weighs 3lbs per 100 links? You'd also had to make some kind of assumption about friction and you'd have to figure the length of the chain for each sprocket combo. Notice 13/39 and 11/33 is the same ratio, but I contend there IS a difference you can feel.
Should be obvious from these pics which configuration takes less force to accelerate.
I might enjoy doing math problems for fun once I'm not taking calc 1 and 2 for an hour each 4 days out of the week! [img][/img]</end quote></div>
Now's the perfect time... While its all fresh in your mind. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Anyone want to calculate the power saved by switching from 13/39 sprockets to 11/33 sprockets if the chain weighs 3lbs per 100 links? You'd also had to make some kind of assumption about friction and you'd have to figure the length of the chain for each sprocket combo. Notice 13/39 and 11/33 is the same ratio, but I contend there IS a difference you can feel.
Should be obvious from these pics which configuration takes less force to accelerate.
#5267
02-14-2009, 12:15 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: atvman29
So I went to the Cycle World show tonight and saw some pretty sweet stuff! Wayne Matlock's Baja winning 700XX was there which was sweet! It even had a flat tire! haha! They had the new Z-400 there which is insanely comfortable. I embarassed a Yamaha sales guy by asking him about the engines in the Raptor 700, YFZ450R and the Rap 250. He seemed ashamed that I knew the Raptor 250 motor was derived from a scooter engine, haha! Great little quad though!
Polaris had their new Victory bike there with the wood seat.
And I've decided my next wheeler is going to be a Raptor 700. I just love that wheeler.
I'm making an album of some pics on photobucket now for you guys to check out.</end quote></div>
The raptor 250 engine reminds me of the 230 engine except the raptor has a shorter stroke and larger bore.
Yeah, why fool around? If you're going to go big, go all the way with the 700. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] Kinda my line of thought with the thundercat.
So I went to the Cycle World show tonight and saw some pretty sweet stuff! Wayne Matlock's Baja winning 700XX was there which was sweet! It even had a flat tire! haha! They had the new Z-400 there which is insanely comfortable. I embarassed a Yamaha sales guy by asking him about the engines in the Raptor 700, YFZ450R and the Rap 250. He seemed ashamed that I knew the Raptor 250 motor was derived from a scooter engine, haha! Great little quad though!
Polaris had their new Victory bike there with the wood seat.
And I've decided my next wheeler is going to be a Raptor 700. I just love that wheeler.
I'm making an album of some pics on photobucket now for you guys to check out.</end quote></div>
The raptor 250 engine reminds me of the 230 engine except the raptor has a shorter stroke and larger bore.
Yeah, why fool around? If you're going to go big, go all the way with the 700. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] Kinda my line of thought with the thundercat.
#5268
02-14-2009, 12:22 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: PoolGod230
Ugly, where in Wisconsin are you?
Kinda funny and strange, but February @ Lake Lawn resort in Delavan is like the mecca for the swimming pool business!!! Sta Rite pool products b4 they were bought out, was based there.. That factory is where the science of pool hydraulics was born and perfected in the early 80's. Around 84-85 they started renting out Lake Lawn resort for 8 days in February to teach us pool pimples how to efficiently move water, not to mention make it do neat stuff! I went for the first of 8 times in 86 when I was 15, with another kid 18 yrs old that I just found out was one of the lead designers on the big water feature @ the bellagio in vegas! <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABcl6rhsarg
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABcl6rhsarg
</a>
I know you all ain't water geeks like myself, but if your every in Vegas check out the show at the Bellagio... That is what I really do, but on a smaller scale, come on, humor me! [img][/img][img][/img] It is almost like being an engineer right?[img][/img]</end quote></div>
Oh yeah, that's some cool stuff! [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]
I've been meaning to pick your brain as to why my "pond" isn't stagnating. It stays pretty dog-gone clear not to have any airflow or never being disturbed. The best I can figure is the shallow regions have plants that must filter it somehow. Either that or the water continually springs up from the table and runs off to the road. I don't know, but I can see a good 2 feet down at least.
Ugly, where in Wisconsin are you?
Kinda funny and strange, but February @ Lake Lawn resort in Delavan is like the mecca for the swimming pool business!!! Sta Rite pool products b4 they were bought out, was based there.. That factory is where the science of pool hydraulics was born and perfected in the early 80's. Around 84-85 they started renting out Lake Lawn resort for 8 days in February to teach us pool pimples how to efficiently move water, not to mention make it do neat stuff! I went for the first of 8 times in 86 when I was 15, with another kid 18 yrs old that I just found out was one of the lead designers on the big water feature @ the bellagio in vegas! <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABcl6rhsarg
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABcl6rhsarg
</a>
I know you all ain't water geeks like myself, but if your every in Vegas check out the show at the Bellagio... That is what I really do, but on a smaller scale, come on, humor me! [img][/img][img][/img] It is almost like being an engineer right?[img][/img]</end quote></div>
Oh yeah, that's some cool stuff! [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]
I've been meaning to pick your brain as to why my "pond" isn't stagnating. It stays pretty dog-gone clear not to have any airflow or never being disturbed. The best I can figure is the shallow regions have plants that must filter it somehow. Either that or the water continually springs up from the table and runs off to the road. I don't know, but I can see a good 2 feet down at least.
#5269
02-14-2009, 12:37 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: nummbr7
I'm new to this forum so , hello everyone
I bought a 86 lt230s at the end of last summer in pretty rough shape and have started to get it ready to break again on the gnarly trails/cliffs around me here in VT
When I first got it , it would idle but not take any throttle - I found it had a k&n filter and full cobra exhaust and they guy had installed a new stock carb kit in the carb so the jetting was out to lunch
I switched to a new 28mm flatslide and uni-filter - I got it running ok by drilling the pilot jet a little larger and playing with the needle - if anyone knows a rough place to start jet wise for my setup that be cool , I'm not too worried right now as I have a lot of Sunday nights left (the only time I get to work on it) replacing all the bad bearings and bushings
I have no clue whats been done to the engine I plan on tearing it down next winter - it has good compression now and doesn't seem to smoke
It seems to be modified a bit though - I already fpound out the hard way the the rear carrier had been switched from a 86 to a 87+ after getting a new caliper and bracket ,but I made my own bracket and was good to go
Sorry to ramble a bit , I'll post some pics up when it starts to look like a quad again
Brady</end quote></div>
Welcome to the club! [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]
I think you should get the 5L1 needle for the TM28 carb. If you find it runs best with the clip at the top of the needle, then you should also get a smaller needle jet. I'm pretty sure once you have the right needle (5L1), the jetting is just a matter of drilling incrementally until it takes all the throttle without a miss.
Remember, before doing any carb work to always be sure your valve lash is set. .001-.003 for the intake and .003-.005 exhuast. If the quad was in bad shape when you got it, it probably needs a new intake valve. Over the couse of the next year, you'll need to keep a close eye on the lash since an already worn valve will wear fast and close the gap quickly.
How are your swingarm bearings? These quads are NOTORIOUS for throwing the chain and cracking the magneto cover. The cover costs $160-$200.
I'm new to this forum so , hello everyone
I bought a 86 lt230s at the end of last summer in pretty rough shape and have started to get it ready to break again on the gnarly trails/cliffs around me here in VT
When I first got it , it would idle but not take any throttle - I found it had a k&n filter and full cobra exhaust and they guy had installed a new stock carb kit in the carb so the jetting was out to lunch
I switched to a new 28mm flatslide and uni-filter - I got it running ok by drilling the pilot jet a little larger and playing with the needle - if anyone knows a rough place to start jet wise for my setup that be cool , I'm not too worried right now as I have a lot of Sunday nights left (the only time I get to work on it) replacing all the bad bearings and bushings
I have no clue whats been done to the engine I plan on tearing it down next winter - it has good compression now and doesn't seem to smoke
It seems to be modified a bit though - I already fpound out the hard way the the rear carrier had been switched from a 86 to a 87+ after getting a new caliper and bracket ,but I made my own bracket and was good to go
Sorry to ramble a bit , I'll post some pics up when it starts to look like a quad again
Brady</end quote></div>
Welcome to the club! [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]
I think you should get the 5L1 needle for the TM28 carb. If you find it runs best with the clip at the top of the needle, then you should also get a smaller needle jet. I'm pretty sure once you have the right needle (5L1), the jetting is just a matter of drilling incrementally until it takes all the throttle without a miss.
Remember, before doing any carb work to always be sure your valve lash is set. .001-.003 for the intake and .003-.005 exhuast. If the quad was in bad shape when you got it, it probably needs a new intake valve. Over the couse of the next year, you'll need to keep a close eye on the lash since an already worn valve will wear fast and close the gap quickly.
How are your swingarm bearings? These quads are NOTORIOUS for throwing the chain and cracking the magneto cover. The cover costs $160-$200.
#5270
02-14-2009, 12:42 PM
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