85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
#1301
11-12-2007, 09:31 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
you got it. I'm talking jets. My 2-stroke 250 runs a TM28 /w 120 main and 35 idle.. yea, it moves air :-) Just don't want to go thru with rebuilding it 15x on a saturday. From what I can remember I think I'm at 400ft. Can you guys tell me what you got for a main and idle?
#1302
11-12-2007, 09:33 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: PoolGod230
Yes I have a stock carb, but wouldn't it flow even less fuel than the 28? I am at 124ft which is where I'll break it in.</end quote></div>
No, the venturi is smaller, so the vacuum will be higher in the stock carb, which means it will try to suck more gas from the jet since it cant suck anymore air thru the carb. Think of water pipes. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
124ft... I'm guessing you're going to need a much bigger jet, but with a 260 kit there may be more vacuum and you might not need as big of a jet as I do. What air filter are you going to use? The stock filter will make it richer.
Yes I have a stock carb, but wouldn't it flow even less fuel than the 28? I am at 124ft which is where I'll break it in.</end quote></div>
No, the venturi is smaller, so the vacuum will be higher in the stock carb, which means it will try to suck more gas from the jet since it cant suck anymore air thru the carb. Think of water pipes. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
124ft... I'm guessing you're going to need a much bigger jet, but with a 260 kit there may be more vacuum and you might not need as big of a jet as I do. What air filter are you going to use? The stock filter will make it richer.
#1303
11-12-2007, 09:42 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: mjlar94
you got it. I'm talking jets. My 2-stroke 250 runs a TM28 /w 120 main and 35 idle.. yea, it moves air :-) Just don't want to go thru with rebuilding it 15x on a saturday. From what I can remember I think I'm at 400ft. Can you guys tell me what you got for a main and idle?</end quote></div>
Wish I could tell you a jet size,,, I can tell you what size drill I used,,, and I also changed needles. I can get you that info if you want, but not too many want to drill their own jets, lol. Gforce had some luck with a 200 or 210 jet a few pages back in this thread, but he is at 7000ft. I know I am WAY bigger than any 200 jet! I think everybody is still using the stock 15 pilot, but I've tried a 17.5 and lower the needle, bu it didnt work and I'm back to the 15 and wishing I could find a 10 or 12.5.
you got it. I'm talking jets. My 2-stroke 250 runs a TM28 /w 120 main and 35 idle.. yea, it moves air :-) Just don't want to go thru with rebuilding it 15x on a saturday. From what I can remember I think I'm at 400ft. Can you guys tell me what you got for a main and idle?</end quote></div>
Wish I could tell you a jet size,,, I can tell you what size drill I used,,, and I also changed needles. I can get you that info if you want, but not too many want to drill their own jets, lol. Gforce had some luck with a 200 or 210 jet a few pages back in this thread, but he is at 7000ft. I know I am WAY bigger than any 200 jet! I think everybody is still using the stock 15 pilot, but I've tried a 17.5 and lower the needle, bu it didnt work and I'm back to the 15 and wishing I could find a 10 or 12.5.
#1305
11-12-2007, 09:56 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: PoolGod230
Yes I have a stock carb, but wouldn't it flow even less fuel than the 28? I am at 124ft which is where I'll break it in.</end quote></div>
No, the venturi is smaller, so the vacuum will be higher in the stock carb, which means it will try to suck more gas from the jet since it cant suck anymore air thru the carb. Think of water pipes. [img][/img]
124ft... I'm guessing you're going to need a much bigger jet, but with a 260 kit there may be more vacuum and you might not need as big of a jet as I do. What air filter are you going to use? The stock filter will make it richer.</end quote></div>
NOW I AM WITH YOU!! Was gonna use k&n but still have stock... What really screws me up IS my job, in my world the bigger the pump (engine in this conversation) the bigger the pipe needed to satisfy it... We move fluids only, not fluid and air!!!!!!!!!!! the two should NEVER meet on the vacuum side in my world. Air means too big of a pump, not big enough pipe in my land... Dang Randall, you are one smart feller!!! I'll get this stuff yet! Thank you!
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: PoolGod230
Yes I have a stock carb, but wouldn't it flow even less fuel than the 28? I am at 124ft which is where I'll break it in.</end quote></div>
No, the venturi is smaller, so the vacuum will be higher in the stock carb, which means it will try to suck more gas from the jet since it cant suck anymore air thru the carb. Think of water pipes. [img][/img]
124ft... I'm guessing you're going to need a much bigger jet, but with a 260 kit there may be more vacuum and you might not need as big of a jet as I do. What air filter are you going to use? The stock filter will make it richer.</end quote></div>
NOW I AM WITH YOU!! Was gonna use k&n but still have stock... What really screws me up IS my job, in my world the bigger the pump (engine in this conversation) the bigger the pipe needed to satisfy it... We move fluids only, not fluid and air!!!!!!!!!!! the two should NEVER meet on the vacuum side in my world. Air means too big of a pump, not big enough pipe in my land... Dang Randall, you are one smart feller!!! I'll get this stuff yet! Thank you!
#1306
11-12-2007, 10:04 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: mjlar94
sudco is god for rare parts like that. and in a group we could all split the 4 pack.</end quote></div>
Well, a shop around here told me they were going to order some 12.5 and 10 for me,,, haven't heard anything from them yet and I've been so busy with my plastic that I haven't really gave it much thought to call them. Plus its getting colder so that helps with the rich condition a bit.
sudco is god for rare parts like that. and in a group we could all split the 4 pack.</end quote></div>
Well, a shop around here told me they were going to order some 12.5 and 10 for me,,, haven't heard anything from them yet and I've been so busy with my plastic that I haven't really gave it much thought to call them. Plus its getting colder so that helps with the rich condition a bit.
#1307
11-12-2007, 10:08 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
Ok, Correction.. I'm at about 900~ft I think.. still not sure. So if you can get me that drill bit number I can crank some numbers and give you your main #. You said it still runs rich?, Drill it out one size more and step the idle down two. You'll see a huge midrange gain if thats the case. Please...please can I have the needle, main drill# and idle your running!!!!! lol.
#1308
11-12-2007, 10:16 PM
#1309
11-12-2007, 10:20 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: PoolGod230
NOW I AM WITH YOU!! Was gonna use k&n but still have stock... What really screws me up IS my job, in my world the bigger the pump (engine in this conversation) the bigger the pipe needed to satisfy it... We move fluids only, not fluid and air!!!!!!!!!!! the two should NEVER meet on the vacuum side in my world. Air means too big of a pump, not big enough pipe in my land... Dang Randall, you are one smart feller!!! I'll get this stuff yet! Thank you!</end quote></div>
Thanks PG, but not so much smart as determined to figure it out. Taking the carb off n draining gas what seems like 100's of times n straining my brain to figure out which way to go with my fist o drill bits and a couple needles it finally dawned on me to take it to extremes. If the carb was the size of a garage door, the 1/4 liter engine wouldn't have enough suction to suck even a vapor from a jet as big as a sewer drain no matter how far closed you have the door! On the other extreme, if the carb was the size of a pencil, all you would get is gas no matter how small you made the jet, because you can only suck so much air thru the venturi. So, find a nice spot in the middle between a pencil and a garage door and that is the right size carb for the 230.
Air is fluid too, that's about all I remember from fluid dynamics in what seems like a past life, lol. But, pretty much the same rules apply to air as to water when in motion. In your world, maybe think about those garden hose fertilizer attachment things that suck a measured amount of fertilizer out of a jar attached to the water hose. Water going thru a venturi does the same thing air does.
You said it... The bigger the engine, the bigger the pipe needed to satisfy it. But what happens when the pipe is too big for the pump? Doesn't the pipe then become more like a storage tank and flow is minimized?
In car engines there are charts all over the net that show you what size carb to get for what size engine and at what rpm you are going to use. There is an optimal solution for every condition. A 4-barrel 750 holley is too much for a 1.6 liter toyota, lol.
NOW I AM WITH YOU!! Was gonna use k&n but still have stock... What really screws me up IS my job, in my world the bigger the pump (engine in this conversation) the bigger the pipe needed to satisfy it... We move fluids only, not fluid and air!!!!!!!!!!! the two should NEVER meet on the vacuum side in my world. Air means too big of a pump, not big enough pipe in my land... Dang Randall, you are one smart feller!!! I'll get this stuff yet! Thank you!</end quote></div>
Thanks PG, but not so much smart as determined to figure it out. Taking the carb off n draining gas what seems like 100's of times n straining my brain to figure out which way to go with my fist o drill bits and a couple needles it finally dawned on me to take it to extremes. If the carb was the size of a garage door, the 1/4 liter engine wouldn't have enough suction to suck even a vapor from a jet as big as a sewer drain no matter how far closed you have the door! On the other extreme, if the carb was the size of a pencil, all you would get is gas no matter how small you made the jet, because you can only suck so much air thru the venturi. So, find a nice spot in the middle between a pencil and a garage door and that is the right size carb for the 230.
Air is fluid too, that's about all I remember from fluid dynamics in what seems like a past life, lol. But, pretty much the same rules apply to air as to water when in motion. In your world, maybe think about those garden hose fertilizer attachment things that suck a measured amount of fertilizer out of a jar attached to the water hose. Water going thru a venturi does the same thing air does.
You said it... The bigger the engine, the bigger the pipe needed to satisfy it. But what happens when the pipe is too big for the pump? Doesn't the pipe then become more like a storage tank and flow is minimized?
In car engines there are charts all over the net that show you what size carb to get for what size engine and at what rpm you are going to use. There is an optimal solution for every condition. A 4-barrel 750 holley is too much for a 1.6 liter toyota, lol.
#1310
11-12-2007, 10:42 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: mjlar94
Ok, Correction.. I'm at about 900~ft I think.. still not sure. So if you can get me that drill bit number I can crank some numbers and give you your main #. You said it still runs rich?, Drill it out one size more and step the idle down two. You'll see a huge midrange gain if thats the case. Please...please can I have the needle, main drill# and idle your running!!!!! lol.</end quote></div>
ok, I got my notes out. With a 80 over wiseco, stock pipe with the drain bolts out, and kn filter I was using the 5HN31 needle (from a stock lt250s carb, yes 250, no misprint, the 230 needle is shorter) and I had the clip in the leanest position. For the main I drilled starting at #55 (which is about .051) and went all the way up to #49 (.073), but felt I did go one step too far, but it ran like a bat outta h3ll anyway. Ok, then I did some exhaust mods to reduce backpressure. That made my plug black. So, I grabbed a new jet and drilled it out till I got to #53 (.058) which is where I am now. Needle still in leanest position (it is a very sharp taper needle, unlike the one you will get with the 28mm). The 28mm needle sucks in my opinion. It doesn't look much like a needle and is very lean on the list of needles at sudco if you go look. 5DP39 I think is the number.
Oh, the biggest drill I could get to go in the 180 jet was a #56 (.046). I've looked at those lists on the net that tell you want size jet is in terms of inches and compare dynojet to mikuni and that don't add up to me. I can't remember the specifics, but I just know those charts are useless to me.
I'm still running rich only on the idle part. The main is dialed in exactly... and the mid for that matter. It is only when the throttle is barely open do I start to get a little soot on my plug. Otherwise, it screams on the top and the plug looks good, nice tan color n that. I've tried raising the needle, but without a selection of pilots to work with I could never get it to work out anywhere but the top notch. The stock pilot is only 15 and there are only 12.5 and 10 below that, so raising the needle is the totally wrong thing to do since there is no way to lean out the pilot enough. With the stock needle, it would all change. I might need a much bigger pilot then and would probably lose a lot of midrange. That needle is way too lean for such a small engine, imo. Put the carb on a 350 and it may be different. Gforce got his to work well, but he is at 7000ft too, so....
Ok, Correction.. I'm at about 900~ft I think.. still not sure. So if you can get me that drill bit number I can crank some numbers and give you your main #. You said it still runs rich?, Drill it out one size more and step the idle down two. You'll see a huge midrange gain if thats the case. Please...please can I have the needle, main drill# and idle your running!!!!! lol.</end quote></div>
ok, I got my notes out. With a 80 over wiseco, stock pipe with the drain bolts out, and kn filter I was using the 5HN31 needle (from a stock lt250s carb, yes 250, no misprint, the 230 needle is shorter) and I had the clip in the leanest position. For the main I drilled starting at #55 (which is about .051) and went all the way up to #49 (.073), but felt I did go one step too far, but it ran like a bat outta h3ll anyway. Ok, then I did some exhaust mods to reduce backpressure. That made my plug black. So, I grabbed a new jet and drilled it out till I got to #53 (.058) which is where I am now. Needle still in leanest position (it is a very sharp taper needle, unlike the one you will get with the 28mm). The 28mm needle sucks in my opinion. It doesn't look much like a needle and is very lean on the list of needles at sudco if you go look. 5DP39 I think is the number.
Oh, the biggest drill I could get to go in the 180 jet was a #56 (.046). I've looked at those lists on the net that tell you want size jet is in terms of inches and compare dynojet to mikuni and that don't add up to me. I can't remember the specifics, but I just know those charts are useless to me.
I'm still running rich only on the idle part. The main is dialed in exactly... and the mid for that matter. It is only when the throttle is barely open do I start to get a little soot on my plug. Otherwise, it screams on the top and the plug looks good, nice tan color n that. I've tried raising the needle, but without a selection of pilots to work with I could never get it to work out anywhere but the top notch. The stock pilot is only 15 and there are only 12.5 and 10 below that, so raising the needle is the totally wrong thing to do since there is no way to lean out the pilot enough. With the stock needle, it would all change. I might need a much bigger pilot then and would probably lose a lot of midrange. That needle is way too lean for such a small engine, imo. Put the carb on a 350 and it may be different. Gforce got his to work well, but he is at 7000ft too, so....